(no subject)

[mooncat_chelion]

Iowa Woman Accused In Attempted Fetus Death



Remind me to get permanently sterilized before -that- becomes criminalized.

Edit: (after some thought, and discussion on and off LJ, I note that the situation is not as bad as that, yet, but The Handmaid's Tale is still pretty fresh in my mind of late)

Comments

[camstone.livejournal.com]

[stares at the screen after reading that story]
Uhm... yeah... gonna say it anyway... that is one "screwed up" woman.

[mooncat.livejournal.com]

Perhaps, but I still think the more appropriate response to the situation would be to offer counciling/assistance, rather than arresting her.

Granted, we don't know the full story behind the events, what the state of the home/relationship was like etc, but I dunno, it bugs me on several levels.

[camstone.livejournal.com]

Bugs me on several levels too.

I mean, self physical abuse? There are so many ways to take it that she needs some serious mental help with her problems... so in that, I agree with you. But too, I think this is probably a case where she needs to be "locked up" until there can be a calmer set of circumstances to determine if this is something that needs to happen - or something that should happen.

I am not against abortion, or a woman's right to make that choice herself... but if she is just doing it to hurt her boyfriend in some weird way... does the fetus need to suffer too? I know we are in a really gray area here, legally as well as morally. But when someone is self abusive to the point of hurting themselves and others - they need to be away from the circumstances to at least let things "reset" and get the often lacking help they need - and the time to get the help they need. (Waiting weeks for a single counseling session is not unknown.)

I dunno... not really enough information to say. I feel bad for all involved. And I don't have a good feelings on the potential outcomes.

[mooncat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there is a lot of unknown still regarding this event. I didn't know it could take that long to be able to see a counselor. Bleh.

I'm just worried about the possible precedent(s) this could set, depending on the outcome.

[camstone.livejournal.com]

I think that wait times depend greatly on how urgent, and how much money you have.

For example, if she went into the ER - and said "I need help" - they would pretty much do nothing until she actually had either a psychotic breakdown or had actually tried something to injury herself. (e.g. if you say you are going to cut yourself, they throw you out... walk in with a wrist slashed - they can then commit you) Once she had tried something, the police and medical staff could then "commit" her (essentially arrest her against her will) and then have her seen when the next counselor was available - on an emergency (loss of life or limb) basis. (Maybe a day or two, and likely drugged and restrained until then.)

Pretty much this is the failing of all "managed health care" - we'll help you if you go into an ER and have trouble breathing and are blue, or have a broken arm... but once you can breath again, or we've set the arm - you're out the door with a cast and a written prescription for pills. Not much more than that. Maybe they will send you to a nursing home when you need some form of 24 hour care, because you can't feed yourself or wipe your bum.

You have to be the one to voluntarily go see your doctor or counselor... and wait until they can make an appointment... which can be weeks of waiting time.

And if it were really health care, I think we'd do a lot better job of "preventative care" than we do... I mean, the cost avoidance alone justifies the cost - but when the accounts can just say "How can you justify a cost on something that might not happen at all.... NEXT!" - that is the case where we all should be... 0.o'

[mooncat.livejournal.com]

*nods slowly* Hm, very good points, and a lot to think on.